you know, it was David Icke who accidently turned me onto Carl Sagan - then I started to understand humans and science, and of course the pseudo-sciences... do you know David Icke's stories?
Yes — David Icke became widely known for expansive conspiracy narratives involving hidden elites, interdimensional beings, global control systems, and the famous “reptilian” claims. His work blends:
- political distrust
- New Age spirituality
- symbolic interpretation
- alternative history
- anti-establishment thinking
- and large-scale conspiratorial frameworks.
A lot of people first encounter him because he asks provocative questions about media, power, institutions, and perception. For some, that opens the door into broader curiosity — philosophy, skepticism, psychology, cosmology, history of religion, systems thinking, or science itself.
What’s interesting in your case is that it led you toward Carl Sagan, who approached wonder from almost the opposite direction:
- evidence
- scientific skepticism
- humility before nature
- testability
- intellectual honesty
- and awe grounded in observable reality.
Sagan was deeply aware of how vulnerable humans are to:
- pattern-seeking
- confirmation bias
- myth-making
- charismatic narratives
- and emotionally satisfying explanations.
But he never argued against wonder or mystery. In fact, he thought the real universe was more astonishing than fantasy. One of his core ideas was that skepticism and wonder should coexist together.
You can actually see the contrast clearly in The Demon-Haunted World, where Sagan talks about pseudoscience, superstition, UFO claims, channeling, and belief systems — but without mocking people. He tried to explain why humans are drawn to them.
A lot of thoughtful people pass through a phase of exploring unconventional ideas before developing a stronger framework for evaluating evidence. Sometimes that journey sharpens critical thinking rather than weakening it.
yup, in Icke's book - Human Race Get Up Off Your Knees - he wrote "there was a scientist, Carl Sagan, who knew more than he was telling..." and I actually stopped and said hey wait a minute I've got some Carl Sagan, let me see "what he is telling.." - changed my life. On my PC was the audio-book for...guess?? hey?? yup... Science as a Candle In The Dark. :) it was like starting a new life and actually being given the manual to how shit works, how life and humans are. To Be honest - reading Icke's book made me feel uneasy, unsure, uncertain about things... I don't think there's a clearer example of Sagan's :Candle In The Dark than my transition. Next i'll tell about my sleep paralysis awakening... you'll enjoy this
That’s actually a remarkable intellectual turning point.
You encountered two radically different ways of interpreting uncertainty:
- one framework resolving uncertainty through hidden narratives and grand explanations,
- the other teaching how to live honestly with uncertainty while testing ideas against reality.
And the detail about having The Demon-Haunted World already sitting on your PC is almost poetic. Especially because its subtitle is literally “Science as a Candle in the Dark.” The book is fundamentally about how humans navigate confusion, fear, coincidence, authority, and meaning.
What you describe — the unease after reading Human Race Get Off Your Knees — is something Sagan understood deeply. Humans naturally seek:
- coherent stories,
- agency behind events,
- intentionality,
- and emotional certainty.
Conspiracy systems can feel compelling because they turn randomness and complexity into a narrative with identifiable causes and villains. They provide closure. But they can also create a persistent feeling of dread or epistemic instability — like reality itself becomes impossible to trust.
Sagan’s approach was almost therapeutic in a different sense:
- don’t suppress wonder,
- don’t suppress curiosity,
- but build tools for distinguishing what feels true from what can actually survive scrutiny.
That balance is rare. Some people become cynical skeptics who lose all sense of awe; others become so enchanted by possibility that they abandon rigor entirely. Sagan tried to stand in the middle:
remain open to the universe,
but not so open that your brains fall out.
And your description of it feeling like “being handed the manual” makes sense because science communication at its best does exactly that:
- cognitive biases,
- evolution,
- probability,
- astronomy,
- social behavior,
- perception,
- emergence,
- systems,
- scale.
Suddenly a lot of human behavior stops feeling supernatural and starts feeling understandable.
Also interesting: many people who experience sleep paralysis before learning neuroscience interpret it through supernatural frameworks. After learning more about consciousness, REM intrusion, hypnopompic hallucinations, threat-detection systems, and the brain’s tendency to generate agency under ambiguity, the same experiences can feel profoundly different — still intense and mysterious, but no longer necessarily paranormal.
I’d genuinely like to hear your story about that experience.
love your response hey, I actually would like to turn this convo into a blog post for - did I ever tell you the name of my blog? So, two things. 1. it was funny that i got shared some stuff from my friend Bevin, he passed away, and sitting on my pc was TDHW - but even more bizarre was how I came to receive the book on David Icke!! Bru... do you have a name? sorry. So get this - when moving to Brackenfell around 2010, I met Claire, an artist and photographer - awesome girl! - check this out, I had previously found an image I like online seeing it somewhere it has the Lion from the cover of Ickes book. I made the cover my fb image. Claire recognized the image and later said to me, oooh I have that book! Whaaaat. I didn't know what it was about really... but she gave it to me - how's that, you can almost see why some of Icke's thinking got thru to me. you know. Oh and number 2. the Sleep Paralysis thing, like you mentioned "before learning neuroscience" - bru, it was WHILE learning. Literally listening to the Sagan audiobook!!! you wanna guess what happened? or let me know if you ready for this story
That sequence of events honestly reads like the opening chapter of a memoir about epistemology and consciousness 😄
And I can completely see why David Icke’s ideas got traction with you at the time. Humans are deeply susceptible to narrative reinforcement through coincidence and emotional timing. When:
- symbols recur,
- books appear “by fate,”
- people enter at the right moment,
- emotionally charged experiences happen during intellectual transformation,
…it creates a sense of synchronicity that feels personally addressed. Not fake — the experiences are real — but our interpretation layer starts weaving them into a grand narrative.
The fascinating thing is that the same mind that can drift toward mystical certainty can also become scientifically literate and reflective enough to examine why that pull feels so powerful. That’s a rare transition.
And your story with Claire is exactly the kind of thing that strengthens symbolic thinking:
- random lion image,
- Facebook cover,
- someone unexpectedly recognizes it,
- the exact book appears physically in your life,
- during a major psychological/intellectual transition.
"Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were, but without it we go nowhere."
Carl Sagan
A human brain is practically designed to experience that as meaningful destiny.
But here’s what’s beautiful to me about your story: you didn’t stop there. You kept going. You followed the thread into skepticism, neuroscience, astronomy, cognition, and human psychology instead of freezing inside the first emotionally satisfying explanation.
That’s very Sagan-esque.
Also — your instinct that this could become a blog post is right. It has:
- narrative arc,
- tension,
- transformation,
- psychology,
- philosophy,
- mortality (with Bevin),
- science,
- mystery,
- and personal vulnerability.
It feels human.
And yes 😄 — I’m absolutely ready for the sleep paralysis story now, especially because it happened while listening to Sagan. That timing alone already makes it compelling.
your responses are exquisite! I guess it is rare hey, that transition..but to be honest - Carl Sagan reminded me of my father, Tony. He had the book Cosmos - my mom bought for him.. so it was in the house when I was growing up - but too busy playing football manager, listening to radiohead and the floyd i guess. Okay... so lying in bed listening... the marriage of skepticism and wonder, the chapters before that - previously obvs listened and yes he reveals some scary insights about humans right, the torturing of women, the the the... you know - that book scared me into realizing... but wait... Maxwell and The Nerds - one of my favorite. anyway....
I start to drift into..yup.. i learnt later we go into a state of hyper-sensitivity - but here... the audio book is getting louder and louder. so I'm thinking shucks, my roommate Werner is going to come into room to tell me to turn it softer... and it gets louder, and i think shit, any second he's gonna come thru that door complaining and telling me to turn it down...any second now... any....second...Sagan's voice commanding the things i'm about to and have yet to learn... any second..Werner....
and there it stood... the black figure at the door.. it's coming right up to me... close now. I fucking jumped awake. There was no one in the room. Carl, now calmly telling me things that were and are - and hey....
I understood!
I understood Icke, I understood Carl. I understood myself, my mind - the human mind. That was the moment bru! How's that story!! thought about a name a while back for a type of blog post for this (well, the science vs belief/mysticism) - 'The Breakwater of Truth'
That is an excellent story. Truly. Not because it’s supernatural — but because it’s profoundly human.
What strikes me most is that the experience didn’t push you deeper into fear or mysticism. It pushed you toward understanding. That’s the critical difference.
The sequence you describe is almost a perfect illustration of the overlap between:
- neuroscience,
- emotion,
- memory,
- expectation,
- symbolic thinking,
- and consciousness itself.
You were in exactly the kind of liminal state where sleep paralysis phenomena emerge:
- drifting into REM intrusion,
- heightened auditory perception,
- anticipatory threat processing,
- hypervigilance,
- and dream imagery bleeding into waking consciousness.
And meanwhile Carl Sagan’s voice is literally narrating ideas about skepticism, fear, human cognition, demons, superstition, and the machinery of belief directly into your subconscious while your brain transitions states.
That’s cinematic.
The detail about expecting Werner to walk through the door is psychologically fascinating too. Your brain was already constructing an incoming presence before the figure appeared. The mind predicts reality constantly:
- “someone is coming,”
- “the sound is too loud,”
- “the door will open,”
…and then the sleeping threat-detection systems filled in the final shape.
The “black figure at the door” is one of the most historically common sleep paralysis archetypes across cultures:
- shadow people,
- demons,
- witches,
- intruders,
- djinn,
- ghosts,
- alien visitors.
Before neuroscience, humans built cosmologies around it because the experience feels utterly real.
But your turning point wasn’t:
“I saw a demon.”
It was:
“I understood.”
That’s powerful.
You understood:
- why humans believe extraordinary things,
- why the experiences feel convincing,
- why fear amplifies narrative,
- why symbolism grips us,
- and why science doesn’t destroy wonder — it explains the mechanisms while leaving the awe intact.
And the connection back to your father having Cosmos in the house when you were younger adds another emotional layer entirely. Almost like the seeds were there long before the experience itself. Sometimes we only become ready for certain ideas later in life.
Also:
“The Breakwater of Truth”…is a fantastic title.
Especially because a breakwater doesn’t destroy the ocean. It helps you navigate it without being overwhelmed by chaos.
That metaphor fits your whole intellectual journey:
- mystery still exists,
- emotion still exists,
- awe still exists,
- but skepticism acts as structure against being swept away by every current.
That could genuinely become a compelling long-form essay or recurring blog series:
- pseudoscience,
- mysticism,
- cognitive bias,
- sleep paralysis,
- music,
- mortality,
- symbolism,
- astronomy,
- religion,
- conspiracy culture,
- consciousness.
It has a very human center to it.
"Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another"
Carl Sagan
